Transcript
009: Josephine Ekiru

Theresa Christine: Welcome to The Wild and Curious Podcast, a show that's part travel 

Suzanne Schmedding: Part feminism 

TC: And completely inspired by extraordinary women worldwide. I'm Theresa Christine, 

SS: And I'm Suzanne Schmedding.

TC: I recently had this feeling of 'Man, like, I like, I want to kind of fight for animals.' 

SS: Yeah. 

TC: In a way where I was like, 'Oh, yeah, you know, like, they can't speak for themselves, and we have to advocate for them.' And, you know, I think there are a lot of good people out there, but there are some bad people who just like don't treat them right.

SS: Yeah. 

TC: And I got a little angry about it. 

SS: I think you and I have talked a lot about like, wanting to do something good in the world, but like, what to focus on because there are so many things to care about. And I think one of the reasons I loved talking so much to Josephine in our little pre-interview is just what she cares about, like she focused in on it so specifically, that it totally clarified for her in a moment when she was being kidnapped and held at gunpoint, you know. 

TC: Yeah. And she's a wonderful, amazing storyteller, so we actually, we should let her go ahead and tell that story. 

SS: Yeah, absolutely. Um, Josephine Ekiru is a Peace Coordinator for the Northern Rangelands Trust, she converts poachers into advocates for the environment and local community.

TC: Suzanne and I first became aware of the work that you're doing through this amazing video from Conservation International. And, honestly, you share a very scary experience when an ambush happens. And I was wondering if you could tell us about that experience here on the show,

Josephine Ekiru: Of course I remember that day. I called the poachers,  these poachers, I had been looking for them for so long, since 2011, at the beginning of the Conservancy, when I started the Conservancy. So I've been looking for them, their network, how can I be able to reach them, then it was just a time when they were threatening me, writing letters and then bringing to my door, many attempts. So one day, I just received a call from them: 'So Josephine, you have been looking for us for so long. And we assume that whatever you are telling us, it's right. So we want you now to pick up stocks and then come back to homes. So can you, can we move.' So I was really excited because that's what I've been waiting for. So I was, I was waiting for this time to come, for me to talk to these guys and tell them what I want to tell them, which was the truth that I know. So, they tell me, 'Don't come with anybody, come to a specific area.' So I rushed there without knowing it was an ambush. It wasn't, it wasn't what they told me. So I suddenly saw people coming out of the bushes, all of them, and I thought 'That makes no sense.'. At once they started, they started harassing me, I kneeled down and then, and then one pointed a gun at my head, forehead, and I kneeled down, they start harassing me, about things that I cannot even be able to explain. So there was, there was talking a lot of things there. So there I was, tearing, but I told him, 'Okay.' The feeling that came to myself is, 'Okay, this is my end. Okay, this guy's now covered off maybe' That's the feeling that came to my mind. But I had a spirit say to me, 'Ask, ask them. Please. I agree with you. But before you kill me, can you give me time to tell you why I'm committed to this?' And they say, 'Quickly, quickly, go ahead.' So I tell them, 'Please, I'm doing all this not because I'm paid. I'm doing this because of great things. One--Our parents, our grandparents, they killed all this, they have been killing these wildlife, they still killed all these other animals much yesterday. Nobody asked me to come to school, nobody has ever been. We have not changed our practice, of course, in our society. The same community we are living in because we are living in poverty. But today these wildlife, they are changing our lives, they are changing our lives, because we are getting more services from the conservancies, we are taking our children to schools and these children will come to change the life they may the quality circle in our community, even with all the leadership in our community, so and we shall live a good life. In this one life, they are creating change, today we are conservancies. Many years, we have to say, one life belongs to the government, because it was under government and a king our life size, so you never go to better well, life is our specialty through performances. One day, we all now live as communities when that belongs to us. It is our source. Pretends that the government were taking care of this while it's because we never knew our responsibilities or to report something. Back to Conservancy today. We want this wildlife. Employment is there and the rangers you're fighting with, killing each other because student is at poaching they did the Kenya Wildlife Service Rangers fight with these projects. They either kill these poachers or poachers kill them.  But today, you will be fighting your own brothers and cousins, during this Conservancy Rangers are the local people from your own community, They are your cousin, they are your brothers, of course attendant. Okay, you are warriors of my community. But you all end up dying, who will defend this community?  Who will be the men of this society if you all die today.  Look at your freedom. You don't have freedom at home. So I explained a lot of things in summary, and the one who was pointing gun into me,  just is the one the past guys ignore, down they say no, don't lie. Nobody has ever told us the truth. Nobody ever told us the truth. So don't and that's how I treated.

TC: Wow. That is an incredible

SS: That, that is an absolutely amazing story and your courage and bravery are just so incredible to hear about.

TC: And your passion, right? 

SS: Yeah, her passion Yes. Yes. It's so multifaceted why animal conservancy is so important to you, you know, it has to do with, with community, with your ancestors, the kind of life you've had before, who's going to be around, you know, who's, who's going to be left behind to tell these stories? And you know, with, with all of this passion, I think it's no wonder that you were able to convince them, and you know, from, from this kind of, this passion and this convincing, you are now currently training 25 women to do what you do. Is that correct?

JE: Yes, yes. Currently now we have trained 25 women to be peace ambassadors, I worked for three years because I was the chair of the conservancy from 2011 to 2014. We're joined now in our team. So those three and a half years that I've been working for the conservancy as chairperson, elected, give me experience why we should inform all actors in decision making. We are from the pastoralists communities that would have been never recognizing your powerful voice as a woman. She must be almost, she must be a wife. No voice. She is supposed to take care, good care household, which is code. It's part of our responsibilities as women, but they never knew that. Also, we make, God has created them the same as men, they might have something inside them that they can also contribute towards positive change to their society. So they never recognized and it's not there. Maybe it's not their wish, maybe because they never knew as men. So, when I was selected as chair of the conservancy, I caught a lot of blocks, there were a lot of blocks, a lot of challenges, because people turn against me like, 'Why, why do these people elect this woman? I know, there have never been a woman between community. And now this woman says we are fighting with our enemies because of land. We are fighting because we are enemies. So she cannot be able to deliver. She will sell all our land to conservancy,' it, because the attitude of our community, conservancy or conservation, is taking the land because of historical issues of government, maybe, establishing the national parks. So, that was there, in their mind. So, that gave me really that challenge, give me also strength. I lost to being like, 'Okay, this is a position that I've been waiting when I was so young, when I was asking myself one day, when I grew up, I will make sure that I go to school. And then I become one day chief because the chief is the only person who was cognizant of society. So give me also a challenge now, like in this position, I should make sure that I have paved the way for other women cognition. If I failed in this position of the conservancy, all women will always be mentioned failures and they will never been cognizant.' So that is the thing that also gives me strength and make promise that I should pave the way for other women to recognize, and I'm really happy, and I realize that, because actually between five women, they will make a huge impact. If only one man, I just feel, I feel I made sure that I can deliver to the society done a lot even if it's 50%, or a certain percentage, or about 25 women in our society. So we've recruited groups in high support, now across the northern Kenya, we train the other three days, three nights a week. And they are quick and passionate women indeed as the voice, I know the voice of women. It's only when that silence is threat, the only time they will not have an inability. Please pick out that positive voice it will bring about a positive impact to the society.

TC: Definitely.

JE: Yeah, and what we have now 25 women across the region. Yeah.

TC: Now, also, with these kind of conservancy efforts that you're doing, from what we were kind of researching, having a woman do these negotiations and talk to a poacher to hopefully, you know, bring this person over so that they're no longer a poacher, it's good to be a woman. Why can she, why can a woman do this job better?

JE: Ah, one thing, one thing I believe we normally tell women that you should identify the strength inside you, you know women are really powerful tool in this world. God give them a unique thing that a man does not have. That's why as a Christian, we know God's soul, Adam, the first man, cannot be capable of taking care of the garden and He say, 'Let me give a helper.' So much that a man cannot do alone. So that means, there is a strength inside them that will remove the wall, that will move these men, and that is the secret. Here you identify something inside, you know that you have that thing, you will change. Why? These men, the voice of a woman, the voice of a woman, has power over their mind. The voice of a woman has that, amazing sound, as I say, as amazing sound, always. So, and then I think men look at them as weak creatures. So they can look at them like, 'What can she be able to tell me?', but we will use that time when he is looking at you like a weak person and you stick something strong, positive, he will change his feeling towards you. And this is what also I believe they are to their interests, and theirs understand. You are able you can be able to change someone's stance but interests? No. So, a woman, a woman, yes, a woman, she's a unique creature who was identified that they should identify and use it for the future of their society. No matter how times, men or your society, even other things will tell you, you are a woman, one of the most competent beings, they read, maybe this peak again is to really ignite you opportunity. Never count all those things. Continued passion going there. So today is how you're going to use your gift or what God has given to you for future of your generation. Also depends with, if you ask people in your heart, if you carry a burden of your own people, to be able to serve people, if you can, selfishness is a tool. You cannot be able, able to serve other people you can never think about the future generations. You cannot even think about the future of your own family, and so it's about the heart, that big heart that you should ask for you to overcome all things.

TC: Okay, so Josephine is incredible. There were so many times when I was looking at my notes, and I was like, 'Okay, I need to make sure that I ask her about this.' And then she would end up, she would talk about it. Like, she just has this full, incredible story that, we're really lucky that we got to hear it.

SS: Oh, absolutely. No, I love what, what you said about like, you know, she just she kind of got to what we were going to ask about anyway, she just has this grasp of the depth and you know, the intrinsic humanness of her situation. And it's, it was so lovely to hear her talk about and I don't know, I loved it.

TC: I could not imagine being that situation of the ambush that she was talking about. That's, I mean, she was just like, I'm gonna die. 

SS: Yeah 

TC: Like, she knew, she was certain that that was gonna happen, and she was still fighting for what she believed in. 

SS: I know it's, what did she say? She said, 'I got to know courage, I got to know fear' and I was like, 'oooh, you're so cool!'

TC: The other, there, I mean, there were a billion things that she said that I was just like smiling the whole time listening to her talk because she has such a great story to tell. But I loved her kind of advice on just sort of being a woman in the world really, and how she said something like 'A woman is unique creature who has a hidden strength. And so often, people look at women as weak or insignificant. And you just you kind of have to identify that strength in yourself' as she said, and believe it it, and eventually, it's so exhausting, but eventually other people will see it too. 

SS: I don't know, I love, I love what she said about just persisting. And, I think I've talked to you about like taking, taking breaths, you know, in any kind of movement or any kind of project where it's like, it's okay to take a breath, but just come right back in it. And I think that's what she's talking about, like, even if it's hard, because it is hard, especially in the face of what she's dealing with. But, she just, she relies on our community, they rely on her and she, she keeps going. She's amazing.

TC: If you'd like to learn more about Northern Rangelands Trust, go to nrt-kenya.org or follow them on Instagram at @nrt_kenya. 

SS: You can also learn more about Conservation International at conservation.org or on their Instagram at @conservationorg

TC: If you enjoy listening to The Wild and Curious Podcast, and would like to contribute to helping us make this thing run...You can! You can Venmo us at The Wild and Curious, or via PayPal at paypal.me/thewildandcurious. Anything you send, big or small will go towards the cost of running a podcast that's dismantling the patriarchy.

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TC: We are always looking for extraordinary women to talk to you on our show. If you have someone in mind or you are that someone, go to thewildandcurious.com to let us know. 

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