Transcript
014: Angie Genade of Rhino Fund Uganda

Theresa Christine: Welcome to The Wild and Curious Podcast, a show that's part travel, 

Suzanne Schmedding: Part feminism, 

TC: And completely inspired by extraordinary women worldwide. I'm Theresa Christine,

SS: And I'm Suzanne Schmedding.

TC: It was really interesting to read about some of the history and to learn more about why they went extinct.

SS: Yeah, I mean, it was also very sad. 

TC: Definitely. 

SS: I think when, when we were doing the research, you had sent me a link with a very sad photo that was just a little bit traumatizing. But I mean, in a way that it probably should be, you know,

TC: Yeah,

SS: I was gonna say, how much did you know about rhinos in Uganda?

TC: I had no idea that they had absolutely zero rhinos after the 80s. So this was a really great chance to learn more about these repopulation efforts and about trying to bring the rhinos back into Uganda. And it was interesting to think about the fact that there is a generation of people in Uganda who grew up not knowing what a rhino was. 

SS: Yeah! 

TC: Not because of ignorance, but simply because it just wasn't there in the country. And so now there are fortunately, places like the one we're going to be talking about today, Rhino Fund Uganda, where people are getting educated, where they are getting to see these animals in a sanctuary and get to know them a little bit more, which is really special.

SS: It is, and we actually found out about our guest today through a short film from GLP Films. The video, #tourismstrong: On the Frontlines of Rhino Conservation in Uganda, introduced us to Angie Genade.

TC: Angie is the executive director of the Rhino Fund Uganda, an organization which aims to repopulate Uganda's national parks with rhinos.

Angie Genade: Uganda's rhinos didn't go extinct because of poaching as much as legal hunting. Then President Idi Amin allowed the hunting of rhinos and a lot of people traveled from all over the world to hunt rhino. There's actually quite a lot of video footage of princes and, you know, people from governments, high up in governments actually hunting rhino. That was the one problem. The other thing was during, during the struggle between Idi Amin and whoever he was fighting against, at whichever time, um, rhinos were actually traded for arms and ammunition. There was poaching, that helped. I mean, it contributed to,, to them becoming extinct. But but there was a lot more to that. It was, it was hunting, allowing people to hunt, trophy hunting for payment, and then of course, the trade for arms and ammunition was a big part of it.

TC: And then it just got out of control.

AG: Totally out of control. I would say the last, the last few rhinos were poached. You've got to understand that Uganda was at war, you know. It was, there was so much rebel activity and, and infighting in the country, that it was, was wildlife...pretty much a free for all for, for quite some time. And, and nobody could really focus on conservation the way we are today. So I'm just glad that, that the opportunity is, yeah, to actually do something, and the country is so stable. And the President is so committed to conservation and tourism.

SS: God, that must be nice. So

AG: Yeah. 

SS: So that's so sad, and you know, I understand that it was legal before and you know, there've been changes, but what Rhino Fund Uganda aims to do is to reintroduce Southern White Rhinos back into the wild. And I would just love to know what that entails.

AG: Okay, well, I want to start by, by just explaining that, that Southern White Rhinos are out of range in Uganda, okay. The two species of rhino that originally were found in Uganda is actually Northern White Rhinos and Eastern Black Rhinos. The Northern White Rhinos, I think the whole world knows the history of them. There's only two left alive today, and that is Najin and Fatu. Two old females that are in our project in Kenya. So, bringing back Northern White Rhinos just wasn't an option, they were none to bring back. So, the next best thing was Southern White Rhinos.  You know, for the past 12 years, we've grown from 12 rhinos, to 32 rhinos. Now, for all, for all practical purposes, that is great success, as rhinos are being poached like they are today. It's a, it's a long, long process. So it starts with, obviously, you know, discussions with the Uganda Wildlife Authority and the Ministry of Tourism, you know, you need, you need the blessing of the government organizations in the country that actually deal with wildlife. And once that is done, feasibility studies have to be done. So you've got to find, because, because rhinos were extinct for 30 years, you know, habitat changes all the time. So it was finding the best habitat for the rhinos, finding a piece of land big enough, you know, for the rhinos, and all of that was quite a process, and it took quite some time to do. This land that we on, yeah, is actually privately owned land at 7000 hectares. And it was given to Rhino Fund for 30 years for this rhino project, alright. And, and if you look, if you look at the the vegetation on this land, it actually doesn't even look like White Rhino habitat. However, the rhinos on the sanctuary are exceptionally healthy. They're breeding better than, than anyone can expect. I mean, our females are dropping a calf every two years, which is excellent, three years is good, you know, we, we adjust, their body condition is good, they don't lose body condition in, in the dry season. So, the choice of this specific piece of land, even though it didn't look like White Rhino habitat, was, was a really really good choice. And then, you know, I do want to say as well, our community, we have a really, really good relationship with our community and, and they, they really do see themselves as stakeholders in this project. And that, in itself, it's so, so big, because if we didn't have that, we'd have a whole lot more problems than we do have. The staff that we have are all Ugandans. I'm the only expat on this project. And they just so committed and so passionate, and I've seen him grow from people that were just looking for a job to people that will happily die for, for these animals, the passion is so great. Community and staff, if you've got them passionate about what you're doing, you can walk many, many miles and, and you can make something successful.

TC: Yeah, there's so many moving parts, like you mentioned, but obviously, the people who are working for you, for them to have that passion. And I'm sure like, your passion is something that inspires them too. That is really incredible, and makes the work even more special.

AG: My passion...You know, in the beginning, they used to just stand and shake their head at me and say, 'This crazy white woman,' you know, and, and it's rubbed off on them. If I saw them carrying a chicken upside down on a bicycle, I'd do my nut,, you know, because you just don't do it. But in Uganda, and in Africa, it's so natural. That's how you transport chickens. So it started honestly, with small things like that. If you want to, if you want to transport a chicken, put it in a box on the carrier. If I see it hanging upside down, I'm confiscating it. At one time I had about 50 chickens running around in my back garden, because I'd confiscated so many of them! But everybody learns, you know? And now they do respect animals, even if you're gonna eat that animal, you still need to respect it, you know? It doesn't have to suffer. 

TC: I can't wait to ask you about your chicken sanctuary. 

SS I know!

AG: Yeah, my chicken sanctuary. Man, I've had duikers, bushbuck, warthog, you name it they've all been in my house, in my garden. The whole district, you know, for 18 miles away, if there's an animal that, that, that's lost or injured, they phone the sanctuary, 'Tell Madame, her animal, if there's an animal doing something wrong, it's also her animal' You know, if there's a leopard eating goats, it's 'Tell Madame HER leopard.' So, that's really what it's become. So, we've reared and rehabilitated...I cannot even count how many animals. It, it's...our prime function is rhino conservation, but it can never just stay that, you know. You, you, you just become so much more.

TC: As we had talked about, there were zero rhinos past, I think 1983, or, you know, in the 1980s in Uganda. So, since you've had the sanctuary, and the first rhinos arrived there in 2005, what kind of changes have you seen in the community? And you know, not just the people who you work with, which is great, but also the people who, who live nearby?

AG: Well, what what we've definitely seen is our community has grown in leaps and bounds. Okay, the little village that we had at our roadside that consisted of three little buildings has now become a small town. In general, the whole community has sort of been uplifted through the amount of people working, yeah, and, and the amount of money being generated because we do, we're very strict, and we're very big on corporate social responsibility. So we really do support churches and schools and medical centers, you know, so we we're just seeing things getting better and better.

SS: That is fantastic. I mean, I love the idea that this community is growing and evolving in a way that they might not have before, had the work not started there. I have to ask is, is part of the draw, part of this is because you've had some, some recently, some rhino babies born? They look very cute online, and I would love to ask about what that is like and what you do for the mothers.

AG: I tell you what, a rhino baby is naughty. They actually give me gray hairs, they do! Especially when you've got two born in the same month. You know what, we, we still get excited every time a baby's born. And, and, and the unique thing about this is our rangers monitor the rhinos 24/7. So there's always somebody who actually witnesses the birth. And it's incredible, because I have a step by step data on exactly what she's doing when the baby takes its breast, when it takes its first milk, when it does, and they video it, you know. And that's why we can get this nice video footage because we've just always got people with the rhinos. So when they're doing something silly and naughty, you know, we actually get it on video. Now we've got one little rhino, yeah, her name is Kuc, she is just terrible. She really is. She's the most inquisitive thing. I have spent so much money, listen it's not even funny! I've spent so much money building walls around everything, because this rhino just walks into your office, or just walks into the restaurant, and she's wild, she will hurt you, you know. She, if she knocks you on your legs, there's no doubt she's gonna break it. And not talk about Big Mama that weighs three tons that's gonna come behind her. You know, so she, she creates really bad dangerous situations. I've got another rhino that just doesn't like motorbikes. And in the past week, I've had to replace two motorbikes because she just doesn't like them. And if she finds them, she flings them all over and steps on, them stomps on them, until she's sure they're really broken and then she leaves them. 

TC: Like, there you go, little treat for you. 

AG: Yeah. So, so rhinos have personalities. So, when we have small babies like this, the rangers spend a lot of time in the trees, they do, just to stay out of the way and not put themselves in a, in a, in a situation where they're going to run into trouble. But it's great.

TC: Oh, that's so wild that they have such unique personalities. And one is like, 'I don't like motorbikes. I'm gonna take care of this motorbike.' But you're right, like they, as much as you love them. They are still wild animals.

AG: They're very much wild animals, and none of us will go anywhere near them because you will die. There's no doubt about it. You know, I've had, I've had, I've had tourists come in and say, 'Can we touch the rhinos?' You know, and my standard answer is 'Yeah, if you want to die, no problems.'

TC: So you are obviously facing some unique challenges right now. I think, tourism industry as a whole has been, has been really grappling with the pandemic. I think all industries have. But what are some of the unique challenges that you're facing right now?

AG: Unique right now for us is the fact that we just have no income. The hardest thing that I'm dealing with right now is the fact that I had to send some stuff home on unpaid leave. And the rest of us, that all year we on skeleton staff are working at half pay. You know, for the first three months, the sanctuary was on lockdown. The people that were inside were not allowed to leave. They couldn't see their families. We had parents dying. We had babies dying, and these guys couldn't even go and bury, you know, their family. It was, it was, it was really, I had to be extremely harsh for their own protection. And, you know, it's something that mentally I have to deal with every day as the executive director. It's really hard. It's heartbreaking man, you know, and I am talking about a tiny, tiny little speck on the map of this country. The rest of the country is suffering. You know, people are suffering. They really, really are. It's, they're hungry. Man, this is, this this thing? I don't know. I don't know. I just hope it ends soon. Because I don't know for how much longer, you know, the people can hold out and remain humble. At some stage, somebody's got to get annoyed.

TC: Yeah. Yeah, I'm so sorry. That you and that everyone there is having to deal with that. You know, I mean, it's, it's been a difficult time for so many people, but it doesn't discount the individual experiences that you have and that your staff has, that's really sad to hear.

AG: It is. It is. It's, you know, that's a thing. It's a global thing. And, and I mean, there are millions of people that are suffering, there's no doubt about that. I can speak about what I'm feeling and what I'm experiencing, as a person responsible for a certain amount of people. Our school? We have a we have a primary school on there, on the sanctuary. You know, it's been closed since when, April? End of March? The kids haven't been able to come to school. Luckily, we've got a couple of TVs around, so we are inviting the kids to come and do some schoolwork from the TVs and that. But they are losing a whole year of schooling, you know? Yeah, this thing is so far reaching it is actually shocking.

SS:  absolutely is. I mean, I, I grapple with, you know, but I think everyone is grappling with what their own personal struggles with it. But I think one of the things that has been helpful for me during this time are looking at some of, kind of, the honestly bizarre positives that have come from it, you know, like, even if it's something small. From your perspective, what are some exciting things that come about, from, from this time being isolated with, with your staff and with the rhinos?

AG: Exactly, what you've just said, is a lot more time being spent with their own children, you know, I'm seeing them riding around with the kids on bicycles, because they in the sanctuary, you know, and coming to Amika lodge on a Sunday with the, with the children, and the wife, to have a soda, you know, and I've seen them taking the kids on nature walks. And so these are the positive things I'm seeing. And it's fantastic. And I do agree with what you're saying. A lot of positive things have come from this. And I think the biggest positive thing from this is it's just stopped us all in our tracks. And, and, and really said, 'Hey, you're moving too fast. You know, just stop and think about your life. Think about your people, think about your families, think about, think about the important things in your life.'

SS: Honestly, I really loved her warmth. You know, the way she speaks about her staff, the way she speaks about the naughty rhinos, you know, she clearly considers these people family. And obviously she's under an enormous amount of pressure. And, and she's very worried. And I loved that she was so honest about it, but it seems like she's handling this as gracefully and with as much strength as could be expected of anyone. And I just I have so much admiration for her.

TC: Yeah, I love that Rhino Fund Uganda hires local people, like, everyone on her staff, they are from Uganda, and she does have volunteers. They have a very sought after volunteer program, which I believe Suzanne, you're going to be joining at some point.

SS: Yeah, yeah. Listen, this podcast has been fun, but I'm definitely gonna go work with some rhinos. So byyyyeee.

TC: That sounds great. But yeah, the fact that this organization, this, the sanctuary gives back to the community in more ways than one. They are providing jobs, they're providing education, they're providing these experiences for people. It really, it is no wonder at all, why the place where the sanctuary is, has been, you know, blooming and there are more people living there. And it's, it's such a more vibrant place than it used to be. 

SS: Yeah, well, and I think the other thing that stood out to me too is, you know, yes, she's giving them education and the community and it's providing jobs, but the other thing she said is that it's cultivated a passion within them, like, the staff originally was just looking for work, and now they all, she said, that they would die for these rhinos, you know. So, it's, it's provided this, this passion and this care about, about their local community about their local environment. And I think that's so wonderful.

TC: Yeah. But it is wonderful to hear actually, Angie was saying how she was kind of scared of the rhinos, not kind of scared, she was actually very fearful of them when she first went there.

SS: Yeah, and like having to go out there every day for two years being afraid and Google 'how not to die by rhino attack.' Like, it's just something that we can't even imagine.

TC: Yeah. But she's, she's, you know, not only overcome this kind of fear that she had, but she has developed an intense and deep passion and love for animal conservation, specifically with rhinos, but as she mentioned, it's, it's about all animals. She, she clearly loves all animals. And, you know, I think people who respect animals and treat them just as, as much as they would treat another human being, I think those are the best people.

SS: You can learn more about Rhino Fund Uganda and donate to their cause at rhinofund.org.

TC: You can also watch the #tourismstrong video on glpfilms.com or at the link in our show notes. If you enjoy listening to The Wild and Curious Podcast and would like to contribute to helping us make this thing run, you can! You can Venmo us at @thewildandcurious or via paypal at paypal.me/thewildandcurious. Anything you send, big or small, will go towards the costs of running a podcast that's dismantling the patriarchy.

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